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Post by grubl on Jun 22, 2010 19:08:53 GMT -5
If you read the books in order, which I recently have for the first time in over 30 years, you can definitely see the character grow and change. He actually displays doubt and is fairly introspective. Ian Fleming envisioned Bond to look like Hoagy Carmichael. None of the guys that we've seen really fit. I believe that in tone and appearance Dalton was probably the best representation of Fleming's Bond. The villians are superior in most of the books. Hugo Drax and , especially, Mr. Big were missed opportunities for the films. These were well -crafted and terrifying characters in the novels. Red Grant is also given a much richer background and is portrayed as being much more of a sociopath in the book.
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Post by Eddie Love on Jun 22, 2010 19:42:29 GMT -5
OCTOPUSSY (okay, a couple of good scenes, but with the amount of goofy bullshit in this movie I don't get why fans cut it so much slack other than it wasn't MOONRAKER or A VIEW TO A KILL) That's true. AVTAK is the only Bond movie I truly hate. MOONRAKER bugs me as well, but, yes, for some reason I have affection for OCTOPUSSY. Maybe because it included a kind of grown-up romance for the --ahem -- grown-up Roger Moore. (I also like that he kills the guy at the end and says "That was for double-0" - whichever it was.) I have the same feeling though about TSWLM -- I think fans cut that a very wide berth, as there's some "goofy bullshit" in that as well.
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Post by Eddie Love on Jun 22, 2010 19:58:59 GMT -5
IHugo Drax and , especially, Mr. Big were missed opportunities for the films. For some reason MOONRAKER is one of the novels I remember most vividly, though it tends to have a bad reputation with fans, perhaps as it was a cut and paste job of a couple of different storylines Fleming was working on.
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Post by grubl on Jun 22, 2010 20:35:23 GMT -5
MOONRAKER was really where I personally became disenchanted with the franchise. At the age of two and a half I saw a double feature of GOLDFINGER and DR. NO at the drive-in. I still have few, but very specific memories of the experience. My mom continued to take me to see every Bond film released after GOLDFINGER in the theatre (with the exception of ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE, which I finally saw on ABC in the '70s) until LIVE AND LET DIE. For that one my sister and I were dropped off at a movie theatre in Poughkeepsie while visiting our grandparents. We loved it and we loved Roger Moore, and I was the right age to really enjoy THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, which I was saw with like minded friends. THE SPY WHO LOVED ME was such an exciting epic and Moore was so cool in it, that my friends and I could not wait for the follow-up. The fact that Bond was going to space seemed great to me! If astronauts went to space, why couldn't Bond? THE PLANET OF THE APES series was over, STAR WARS was still just one film, Bond was the only franchise that us super-hero fans could had. Everything was riding on MOONRAKER, and it sucked. Even though there have been good Bond films since, I have never been as excited about them since fucking MOONRAKER! That really ruined it for me.
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Post by grubl on Jun 22, 2010 20:37:36 GMT -5
Why can't I figure out what TSWLM stands for?
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Post by Eddie Love on Jun 22, 2010 20:46:15 GMT -5
Why can't I figure out what TSWLM stands for? THE SPY WHO LOVED ME. I think in the thread on the Gilt-edged show for this I mentioned some of what I'm not crazy about with that movie. But I do like it.
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Post by Eddie Love on Jun 22, 2010 21:01:54 GMT -5
Regarding Diamonds are Forever, I agree that it is not a good movie... but it's awful in such compelling, downright weird ways that I find it very watchable. I never want to see Moonraker or A View to a Kill again, but I'd gladly rewatch DIF. AVTAK is the only one I just hate and it's a chore to watch. I have favored moments from I think every other one. DAF and L&LD are the two that have dropped furthest in my estimation from when I was a kid and thought they were the greatest things ever. MWTGG is the film that even as a kid I knew had some dreck-y shit in it, but today I find not as bad as I once did. YOLT is my least favorite of the original 60s ones. THUNDERBALL I think is the most underrated (not counting the generally underrated Dalton and Lazenby ones) and I think people remember there being lots of boring underwater stuff, because we were used to seeing it on network TV or on VHS. Plays much better on (restored) DVD and, of course, on the big screen.
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Post by grubl on Jun 22, 2010 23:35:45 GMT -5
I definitely have an affection for THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN because of my feelings when I first saw it. And though I put DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER on my worst list, I still have a warm spot for it. THUNDERBALL, no matter what age I have watched it at, has always bored the hell out of me. The only scenes that I really perk up at are those featuring (an at that point unseen) Blofeld.
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Dino
Full Member
Tai-Pan
Posts: 166
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Post by Dino on Jun 24, 2010 0:50:54 GMT -5
I really couldn't disagree more with Eddie's statement about the female characters in the books vs. the ones in the movies. I've been reading them quite a bit lately and Fleming's misogyny practically drips from the pages. You get the impression that if it wasn't for sex, Fleming would have absolutely no use for women. I feel a lot of the women in the films, especially in the past twenty years or so, got a much better shake (particularly Eva Green's portrayal of Vesper).
As for my lists, here we go:
ACTORS Sean Connery Daniel Craig Pierce Brosnan Timothy Dalton George Lazenby Roger Moore
Brosnan and Dalton alternate for me depending on how I'm feeling that day. And sometimes they may alternate with Craig as well. At the moment, this is what my list feels like.
TOP FILMS From Russia With Love Dr. No (I'm really surprised this doesn't show up on a lot more lists) Casino Royale GoldenEye On Her Majesty's Secret Service (although had Connery returned for this one, it would be much higher)
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Post by james on Jun 24, 2010 5:32:31 GMT -5
I really couldn't disagree more with Eddie's statement about the female characters in the books vs. the ones in the movies. I've been reading them quite a bit lately and Fleming's misogyny practically drips from the pages. You get the impression that if it wasn't for sex, Fleming would have absolutely no use for women. It's been a long while since I read them, but I remember that, in the later books, Bond starts to feel regret about his womanizing. I definitely recall in more than one of the books he expresses remorse over Vesper Lynd's death. Mind you, I'm not suggesting Fleming was never misogynistic, either. James
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Post by Eddie Love on Jun 24, 2010 5:56:07 GMT -5
I really couldn't disagree more with Eddie's statement about the female characters in the books vs. the ones in the movies. I've been reading them quite a bit lately and Fleming's misogyny practically drips from the pages. You get the impression that if it wasn't for sex, Fleming would have absolutely no use for women. I feel a lot of the women in the films, especially in the past twenty years or so, got a much better shake (particularly Eva Green's portrayal of Vesper). Hey, Dino. My point isn't' that the women in the novels are enlightened portraits -- clearly both Honeychile and Pussy are damaged women who are saved by Bond's cock -- only that they are developed with more seriousness than they are in the films. I don't disagree that they're fantasy figures (or that Fleming had clear sexual hang-ups -- "tang of rape" and all that) , just that these are much more vivid characters than you expect coming from the films.
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Post by grubl on Jun 24, 2010 10:00:50 GMT -5
Exactly. We live in a time when a lot of criticizm is tied to modern social mores. It is this rigid fear driven modern day America.
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Post by smang12345 on Jun 24, 2010 12:00:36 GMT -5
Top Five Bond Films: 1: GOLDFINGER 2: FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE 3: ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE 4: DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER 5: THE SPY WHO LOVED ME tied with CASINO ROYALE I'll agree with that list except for Diamonds Are Forever which is on my list as one of the worst for three reasons: 1. Blofeld in a fuckin dress. Out of all the Blofelds Charles Gray is so effiminate in the movie he borders on being a New York drag queen. I guess putting him in a dress was only natural. 2. I could forgive the stupid-looking moon buggy but a clear plastic bubble? 3. If he's looking for Blofeld for revenge shouldn't Bond, oh I don't know, mention the death of his wife at some point in the movie while talking to the guy who killed his wife? Blofeld killed his wife and Bond is going on a tear looking for her killer and he never mentions it? I call bullshit!
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Post by Eddie Love on Jun 24, 2010 20:27:53 GMT -5
Dr. No (I'm really surprised this doesn't show up on a lot more lists) I love DR NO, but it lacks a certain cinematic dimension to the action scenes that would be in place for FRWL. (Bond and No's fight is pretty dull.) I do love to re-watch it and love the overall look of it. But when Bond tells Quarel to "Fetch my shoes."? Not 007's proudest moment.
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Post by Derrick on Jun 24, 2010 20:54:28 GMT -5
MY TOP THREE BOND GIRLS (ACTING)
1: Diana Rigg 2: Sophie Marceau 3: Maud Adams
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