|
Post by Derrick on Aug 31, 2009 22:33:31 GMT -5
So Tom and I are having our regular Monday night gabfest in which many matters pertaining to comics and movies are discussed (Just try and guess what we decided Ben Affleck, Sarah Michelle Gellar and Cuba Gooding, Jr have in common) and the conversation turns to Cult Movies. This is the part where the conversation started to get heated as we flung examples back and forth as if they were flying daggers of what we thought Cult Movies were and why they're Cult Movies.
So I thought I'd ask you guys: what do YOU consider to be a Cult Movie? Can a Cult Movie be created right from jump or does it need time to marinate and ripen? And by all means give examples of what you think a Cult Movie is and why it's a Cult Movie.
|
|
Kelen
Full Member
Apprentice To The Master Of Sinanju
The Non-Writer
Posts: 110
|
Post by Kelen on Sept 1, 2009 1:40:27 GMT -5
A good cult movie is something that isn't popular out the gate and is thought of as dreck for the first few months of its release. Like Office Space (I like it but I don't think it deserves cult status), or the first Friday movie (until it got made into a trilogy).
Directors can try to make a cult movie, but ultimately its the viewers who decide.
I actually think the South Park movie is a cult movie because while its fans think its amazing, the number of non-fans who enjoy the movie that I've met is pretty high. I think it's either a movie that's so bad to them they can't stop watching it or maybe they love the music in it, but I rarely hear anyone say they hate that movie.
|
|
|
Post by Erik on Sept 1, 2009 7:20:37 GMT -5
A Cult movie is one that isn't successful in the box office. It probably has about 50% positive reviews and then it disappears from the theater a week after release and from memory for about 5yrs until a friend of yours go "Dude, have you seen this movie?!" to which you proceed to say "No. I mean, I've heard of it...but I never did get around to seeing it." and then this friend puts it into the DVD player for you to see and after it's done you go "Damn, that was a good flick. When did this come out?" - "Like 5yrs ago."
And then the more you talk about it to people the more you realize how you totally didn't have your finger on the pulse, but rather jammed so far up your ass that you let this gem ignorantly pass you by. It then becomes a movie that you quote incesintly because it makes you look cool. "I'm gonna show her my O face...Ohhh...Ohhh". or "I grab a dog! And I, and I choke him. Then I kick the shit outta him, all day long a foot up a dogs ass, just bang bang bang, up his ass...that's my pleasure!". And then what happens from there is you walk around in the mall 2yrs later and pass by a Hot Topic and see a T-Shirt made from that movie because the mainstream finally catches on to the "underground" chatter and decides to make the movie cool again by putting a catch phrase or the characters faces in a vintage print look so it looks like the t-shirt is 5yrs older than it is and already been through the wash and worn out. Another thing that drives, or could drive, the Cult status is that the movie is slightly off center, quirky and mashes genre's.
My examples: UHF, BUBBA HO-TEP, BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA, GOLDEN CHILD, FROM DUSK 'TILL DAWN, ANGEL HEART and possibly as a newer reference BEERFEST.
BUT I think it's entirely possible for a Cult movie to transcend that status and make it to mainstream status. Like CLERKS, FRIDAY, BOONDOCK SAINTS and BIG LEBOWSKI I wouldn't classify as Cult movies anymore, while I certainly think they wouldn't be where they're are without having been a Cult movie first.
-- The more I think about it the more I have to add. I also think that the term Cult Movie might have evolved today though. Before DVD's a movie's exposure was limited. A friend of yours would need to make a copy of his VHS and write the title of that movie on a white sticker with shitty handwriting. But even then going through the trouble of recording a VHS was a pain in the ass process. With the Internet, the mass release of DVD's, YouTube and NETFLIX I think the shelf-life for a movie to remain in Cult status made within the last 10yrs is much shorter before the rest of the world catches on. Word of mouth travels much faster today ever since the days of charging for long distance have been erased and it costs me nothing extra to talk to a guy in Brooklyn or Utah.
I would almost consider THE WARRIORS a Cult fick too if it weren't for the talks about doing a remake of it. It draws too much mainstream attention to it. FRIDAY was a Cult film until they made 2 sequels for it. BOONDOCK SAINTS was until you saw their posters and t-shirts. While UHF will never see a remake, or t-shirts...so it stays Cult. Shit, Podcasts could even go a long way to turning a status of a Cult movie around to become more popular. 'Cause I think when somebody comes up to you and tells you about a movie you've seen...it's no longer Cult.
|
|
|
Post by james on Sept 1, 2009 7:34:42 GMT -5
The term "cult movie" came from (as far as I can tell) revival screenings of neglected older films (like Freaks and Reefer Madness) and midnight screenings of new films that fell under the radar of mainstream culture, where seeing the film was akin to participating in a ritual (hence the term "cult") - films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show and Eraserhead. I think Danny Peary's book Cult Movies (which is a great read, as are his two follow-ups) pretty much defined the term, or at least a popular definition.
News of these films spread through word of mouth, or writing in small-circulation film journals and hip alternative newspapers. It wasn't coming from the mass media or the corporate studios (Rocky Horror was distributed and promoted by a major studio, and the film flopped. The midnight cult started later).
As to what it means now? In the age when thousands of movies are available on DVD or internet download, and word on a film can spread instantly through the Internet - I don't know! It's probably the same definition (the audience for cult movies is being generated by enthusiasm, not marketing), but new technology makes it much easier to see these films. It's much easier to watch most of the films Peary included in his Cult Movies books than it was when he wrote them.
I don't know if a cult movie can be created, but I do believe it can't be mass-marketed. Good promotion can direct the right audience to a cult film, but blockbuster promotion will kill it.
|
|
|
Post by Derrick on Sept 1, 2009 9:42:50 GMT -5
The term "cult movie" came from (as far as I can tell) revival screenings of neglected older films (like Freaks and Reefer Madness) and midnight screenings of new films that fell under the radar of mainstream culture, where seeing the film was akin to participating in a ritual (hence the term "cult") - films like The Rocky Horror Picture Show and Eraserhead. I think Danny Peary's book Cult Movies (which is a great read, as are his two follow-ups) pretty much defined the term, or at least a popular definition. News of these films spread through word of mouth, or writing in small-circulation film journals and hip alternative newspapers. It wasn't coming from the mass media or the corporate studios ( Rocky Horror was distributed and promoted by a major studio, and the film flopped. The midnight cult started later). As to what it means now? In the age when thousands of movies are available on DVD or internet download, and word on a film can spread instantly through the Internet - I don't know! It's probably the same definition (the audience for cult movies is being generated by enthusiasm, not marketing), but new technology makes it much easier to see these films. It's much easier to watch most of the films Peary included in his Cult Movies books than it was when he wrote them. I don't know if a cult movie can be created, but I do believe it can't be mass-marketed. Good promotion can direct the right audience to a cult film, but blockbuster promotion will kill it. Nice to see somebody mention Danny Peary's excellent "Cult Movies" books. And you make an excellent point about how current technology has affected what is or what isn't a Cult Movie. As for Cult Movies being created or mass-marketed...what about THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT or CLOVERFIELD? BLAIR WITCH I consider a one time fluke and CLOVERFIELD I don't consider a Cult Movie at all although I know plenty who do.
|
|
|
Post by james on Sept 1, 2009 10:00:03 GMT -5
Derrick -
I also love Peary's other film books Guide for the Film Fanatic (I've almost read my copy to pieces) and Alternate Oscars. Great stuff!
As much as I liked Cloverfield, I don't consider it a cult movie. I do think of The Blair Witch Project as one, because it wasn't funded by a major film studio; the filmmakers funded most of it themselves until an independent studio, Artisan, stepped in. And I think the viral marketing was truly word-of-mouth (or modem to modem, maybe).
Cloverfield was, to me, Hollywood's attempt at making a film in the style of Blair Witch, complete with viral marketing. But Paramount Pictures spent far more money than Artisan ever did to promote the film. Is there a difference? Yeah, to me there is, maybe more in scale than anything else. I heard of Blair Witch from online chatter and a few early positive reviews from genre websites. If there was even a trailer, I don't remember watching it.
I learned about Cloverfield from that great trailer that ran in theaters, and from TV commercials, and dozens of press articles (yeah, the media covered Blair Witch plenty, after it became a hit).
|
|
|
Post by tombitd on Sept 1, 2009 20:01:36 GMT -5
As for Cult Movies being created or mass-marketed...what about THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT or CLOVERFIELD? BLAIR WITCH I consider a one time fluke and CLOVERFIELD I don't consider a Cult Movie at all although I know plenty who do. As far as CLOVERFIELD is concerned--it might just be going through the 'hibernation' period I contend is vital to a film before it starts building the cult audience through rediscovery and word of mouth.
|
|
|
Post by Derrick on Sept 5, 2009 8:33:13 GMT -5
A good cult movie is something that isn't popular out the gate and is thought of as dreck for the first few months of its release. Like Office Space (I like it but I don't think it deserves cult status), or the first Friday movie (until it got made into a trilogy). Directors can try to make a cult movie, but ultimately its the viewers who decide. I actually think the South Park movie is a cult movie because while its fans think its amazing, the number of non-fans who enjoy the movie that I've met is pretty high. I think it's either a movie that's so bad to them they can't stop watching it or maybe they love the music in it, but I rarely hear anyone say they hate that movie. Y'know one of the most interesting things about OFFICE SPACE? It's a movie that has a rap/hip-hop soundtrack that actually works for and with the context of the movie and isn't just a random collection of the latest popular rap/hip-hop hits thrown together to sell a soundtrack. And yeah, I agree that the first FRIDAY and the SOUTH PARK movie are both Cult Movies. I'm not all that big of a SOUTH PARK fan but I do own the movie on DVD. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen and the songs are hilarious.
|
|
|
Post by stevejrogers on Sept 7, 2009 19:17:00 GMT -5
Well, Affleck and SMG do have Buffy ties...Cuba though?
|
|
Kelen
Full Member
Apprentice To The Master Of Sinanju
The Non-Writer
Posts: 110
|
Post by Kelen on Sept 9, 2009 7:54:49 GMT -5
Y'know one of the most interesting things about OFFICE SPACE? It's a movie that has a rap/hip-hop soundtrack that actually works for and with the context of the movie and isn't just a random collection of the latest popular rap/hip-hop hits thrown together to sell a soundtrack. Oh! The Office Space soundtrack is pretty awesome! Thanks for reminding me.
|
|
|
Post by Derrick on Jun 12, 2010 14:49:51 GMT -5
DARKTOWN STRUTTERS ALERT!!!
Turner Classic Movies is airing DARKTOWN STRUTTERS on Friday, June 18th @ 2AM so set your DVRs accordingly. Or your VCRs if you're still living in the Dark Ages. ;D
|
|
|
Post by grubl on Jun 12, 2010 23:32:46 GMT -5
I am definitely in the camp that thinks that a film cannot be considered Cult unless it has had some time to grow up organically. Generally, historically, cult films were B features, drive-in features, etc.) . These are those films that are suddenly noticed, simultaneously, over the country, with little or no real marketing, by small and large groups of fans. Movies like BILLY JACK, THE GROVE TUBE, ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW, NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD. Or epic failures like HEAVEN'S GATE, or racey/banned classics like FREAKS and REEFER MADNESS. I guess that in this age the closest thing in spirit to cult films are popular youtube clips that get millions of viewers.
|
|
|
Post by grubl on Jun 12, 2010 23:37:45 GMT -5
By the way, twice I bought DARKTOWN STRUTTERS on amazon since your review, they list it as available, both times they took the order said it would arrive in a week and both times they credited back my money and said that theu were unable to send it . So, I'm glad that it's on. Keep leaving reminders.
|
|
|
Post by Derrick on Jun 13, 2010 0:28:44 GMT -5
No problem. I'll keep dropping DARKTOWN STRUTTERS reminders every couple of days until the 18th
|
|
|
Post by Eddie Love on Jun 13, 2010 7:46:38 GMT -5
I am definitely in the camp that thinks that a film cannot be considered Cult unless it has had some time to grow up organically. Yeah, I think the notion of a cult film had significance back when, if a film wasn't successful in it's initial release, it was pretty well done in. It was rare that a film that flopped or was from a misbegotten genre was reconsidered. Now, with home video and cable, every film has a second life after it's release, so you find that many more can develop a following this way. Today I'd say that pictures that overcome a critical or commercial rejection, yet still manage to become cultural touchstones are the closest things we have to cult movies -- I'd mention OFFICE SPACE and FIGHT CLUB , for instance. I'm more curious these days when the opposite occurs -- when a film is a critical or commercial hit, but then seems to have no after.life -- you never hear anyone talk about it. One name I'll throw out is Peter Jackson's KING KONG, which was one of the most critically praised films in my lifetime -- I'm not kidding -- as well as being hysterically hyped, which no one ever mentions a few short years later. (I hated it myself.)
|
|